Discussion Intelligence

λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
I know that intelligence is a very wide thing, but I'll only talk about the type of intelligence related to math/logic puzzle solving stuff. So what is intelligence? Certainly when a person can solve a lot of tricky math problems faster than others, we think they are intelligent, but what is the difference between a person who can solve these puzzles and someone who can't (or maybe they can but it takes them a really long time)? I used to think it was mostly luck. Sometimes solving a puzzles does end up requiring a bit of luck, think of it this way: There are multiple approaches you can take to solving a puzzle, not all of them will pan out, but you can't know if they will pan out or not until you try them, so you pick an approach and check where it leads, in the end it leads nowhere and you have to pick something else. Someone else might have picked a different approach and this approach did work out for them, even though the only difference between you and them is that they were lucky enough to pick an approach that would pan out. So there's definitely luck involved, but that's not all, after all some people can consistently pick the right approach faster than others and with less trial and error. I witnessed this multiple times back when I used to solve sudoku variants, I follow this YouTube channel with two veteran sudoku solvers and watching them solve a puzzle is like watching someone perform magic. Somehow they always know what is the right approach to solving a problem, even when solving them blind, they can always discern what thoughts processes will lead to a solution and they solve the puzzle fairly quickly. By comparison, I would take much longer because I would waste time on approaches that led nowhere. So for you to solve a puzzle quick you need both the luck and the experience but also some intuition, some sort of subconscious bias that leads you down the right path and I think this intuition is something that you're born with, of course you can improve it with experience, but very little.

But I think there's more to intelligence than the ability to discern the right approach to a problem faster than others: There is also the ability to come up with approaches to solving a problem that nobody else could have come up with. Thoughts processes that are so convoluted and complex, there's no way the average person could have come up with that, even if you gave them infinite time. I think this second thing is what truly makes the difference between an average mathematician and a world class famous mathematician who will be remembered for ages to come.

Personally, I don't feel like I have this ability to come up with super mind blowing ideas. In all of my years of living, I have never had an idea that made me go "woah I really knocked it out of the park with this one", I feel like all of my thoughts processes are so linear and just what anyone would do if they had the same information I have. I mean maybe not anyone, after all the average person really does truly suck at math, but like I feel like any competent mathematician could have come up with that same idea no problem.

Ultimately I think that's ok, after all, I don't need to be a super famous genius mathematician to be happy, or to advance the field of math. Truth is people like me that are smart enough to understand complex math, but not smart enough to come up with the next big idea that will revolutionize entire fields of math, are still needed to make progress. There are millions of people with the same level of math ability or better than me, and even though we will no be coming up with any brilliant ideas, we can chip away at math problems so that perhaps a truly smart person can one day fully solve it.

Thanks for listening to me ramble.
 
O

orangelover

NEET
Jan 9, 2024
146
My fsiq is around 104 on the CAIT test, which is a reddit created IQ test.
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
I have 80 IQ.
In my opinion IQ tests are not that good at telling how intelligent a person is. I focus more on the ability of the person of solving math problems, that's my tell at least (and yeah I know intelligence is more than just math).
My fsiq is around 104 on the CAIT test, which is a reddit created IQ test.
I mean if it came from Reddit, can it really be trusted?
 
O

orangelover

NEET
Jan 9, 2024
146
In my opinion IQ tests are not that good at telling how intelligent a person is. I focus more on the ability of the person of solving math problems, that's my tell at least (and yeah I know intelligence is more than just math).

I mean if it came from Reddit, can it really be trusted?
to a degree, I think the accuracy is being assessed as more people take it.
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
to a degree, I think the accuracy is being assessed as more people take it.
i just took a look a it and apparently they measure digit span as part of intelligence? Now don't get me wrong I think memory is important to have, but I feel it should be a separate thing from intelligence. Digit span, and memory in general, is something you can train at and get much much better, whereas intelligence is pretty much set. If you'd like to train and get a cool skill that makes your brain look more capable, consider training Dual-N-Back, I myself want to get better at that since it's cool.
 
O

orangelover

NEET
Jan 9, 2024
146
i just took a look a it and apparently they measure digit span as part of intelligence? Now don't get me wrong I think memory is important to have, but I feel it should be a separate thing from intelligence. Digit span, and memory in general, is something you can train at and get much much better, whereas intelligence is pretty much set. If you'd like to train and get a cool skill that makes your brain look more capable, consider training Dual-N-Back, I myself want to get better at that since it's cool.
Yes it borrows digit span and a corsi block memory test that you have to take separately at the end I think. I wasn't aware of memory improving. I took the corsi block test a few times and its around the same everytime.
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
In my opinion IQ tests are not that good at telling how intelligent a person is. I focus more on the ability of the person of solving math problems, that's my tell at least (and yeah I know intelligence is more than just math).

I mean if it came from Reddit, can it really be trusted?
So you're aware math is a limited subtype of intelligence yet use it as a main criteria to determine intelligence? Lol
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
If you've ever seen STEM types talk about political and social and humanities topics logical/math IQ does not always translate into verbal IQ lol. But generally yes it does
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
The whole point of IQ is there's a general cognitive ability that helps you in any cognitive task
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
Yes it borrows digit span and a corsi block memory test that you have to take separately at the end I think. I wasn't aware of memory improving. I took the corsi block test a few times and its around the same everytime.
If you want to improve your memory, I think the way to go is to look into memory palaces. I want to learn more about them but haven't had the time.
So you're aware math is a limited subtype of intelligence yet use it as a main criteria to determine intelligence? Lol
It's not that I don't acknowledge others types of intelligence, but the math one is the one I care about the most, hence why I only talk about that one.
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
If you want to improve your memory, I think the way to go is to look into memory palaces. I want to learn more about them but haven't had the time.

It's not that I don't acknowledge others types of intelligence, but the math one is the one I care about the most, hence why I only talk about that one.
Math one is giga limited by itself. Its why east asians have invented way less than europeans. Without creativity and understanding on a deeper level u wont know what alleys to go down in science. Or have novel approaches
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
I feel like all of my thoughts processes are so linear and just what anyone would do if they had the same information I have.

Same. But this is even kinda true of giga geniuses. Newton and einstein were surrounded by people with similar ideas. Look at leibniz or that philosopher who had a similar idea about relativity like 20 years before einstein

There was also an arab who had a sort of proto evolution theory in medieval times
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
Math one is giga limited by itself. Its why east asians have invented way less than europeans. Without creativity and understanding on a deeper level u wont know what alleys to go down in science. Or have novel approaches
I think there are two flaws with that argument. First it implies that math is not a creative subject, which is not true at all, math requires a lot of creativity, most people don't know this since they only know about the math they learned in school and school math is just the worse, it literally only measures how well you can memorize formulas and techniques. Second it implies that east asians are better at math than europeans, which is also not true. East asians are better at school math, the type that doesn't require creativity and it's only memorizing formulas and theorems, but actual math? Not really. I mean just look at all the main areas of math that mathematicians study, pretty much all of them were invented by europeans. Here in university we study: Analysis, topology, abstract algebra. All invented by europeans. Europeans are the best at math and hence why they are also the best at inventing and just societal progress in general.
Same. But this is even kinda true of giga geniuses. Newton and einstein were surrounded by people with similar ideas. Look at leibniz or that philosopher who had a similar idea about relativity like 20 years before einstein

There was also an arab who had a sort of proto evolution theory in medieval times
I think there is truth to what you say, after all, pretty much all new ideas are a rehash of an older idea. From what I've heard some people are not happy with Newton getting the title of "inventor of calculus" since a lot of the ideas he used were well known stuff for the intellectuals of his time. So maybe we should consider multiple people as the inventors of calculus instead of the one guy that put the final nail on the coffin.
 
Jenny Wakeman

Jenny Wakeman

Banned
Aug 20, 2023
218
Terrance tao's mother was a math teacher bro, also he doesnt sound that smart when he talks. Multi level intelligence theory is true and real, general intelligence doesnt exist
 
Jenny Wakeman

Jenny Wakeman

Banned
Aug 20, 2023
218
I think there are two flaws with that argument. First it implies that math is not a creative subject, which is not true at all, math requires a lot of creativity, most people don't know this since they only know about the math they learned in school and school math is just the worse, it literally only measures how well you can memorize formulas and techniques. Second it implies that east asians are better at math than europeans, which is also not true. East asians are better at school math, the type that doesn't require creativity and it's only memorizing formulas and theorems, but actual math? Not really. I mean just look at all the main areas of math that mathematicians study, pretty much all of them were invented by europeans. Here in university we study: Analysis, topology, abstract algebra. All invented by europeans. Europeans are the best at math and hence why they are also the best at inventing and just societal progress in general.

I think there is truth to what you say, after all, pretty much all new ideas are a rehash of an older idea. From what I've heard some people are not happy with Newton getting the title of "inventor of calculus" since a lot of the ideas he used were well known stuff for the intellectuals of his time. So maybe we should consider multiple people as the inventors of calculus instead of the one guy that put the final nail on the coffin.
Asians are a lot better at math, western universities would be 100% asians if they were allowed to. Whites have legacy spots in well funded instiutions that dont exist in asia.

Whites inventing math can be explained by noise lol and modern white zoomers are lazy and subhuman so w/e
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
I think there are two flaws with that argument. First it implies that math is not a creative subject, which is not true at all, math requires a lot of creativity, most people don't know this since they only know about the math they learned in school and school math is just the worse, it literally only measures how well you can memorize formulas and techniques. Second it implies that east asians are better at math than europeans, which is also not true. East asians are better at school math, the type that doesn't require creativity and it's only memorizing formulas and theorems, but actual math? Not really. I mean just look at all the main areas of math that mathematicians study, pretty much all of them were invented by europeans. Here in university we study: Analysis, topology, abstract algebra. All invented by europeans. Europeans are the best at math and hence why they are also the best at inventing and just societal progress in general.

I think there is truth to what you say, after all, pretty much all new ideas are a rehash of an older idea. From what I've heard some people are not happy with Newton getting the title of "inventor of calculus" since a lot of the ideas he used were well known stuff for the intellectuals of his time. So maybe we should consider multiple people as the inventors of calculus instead of the one guy that put the final nail on the coffin.
These mega geniuses were still 1 in a billion intelligence I'm sure but we dont know how much of their fame is luck/just happening to be born at the right place and time you know? And how many ramujan figures there are out there, who were geniuses born in shit circumstances.

I remember looking this up before, with 2 sides being "are these luminaries superhuman" vs "these luminaries were smart sure but a lot of it was luck too" and seeing good arguments for both
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
Asians are a lot better at math, western universities would be 100% asians if they were allowed to. Whites have legacy spots in well funded instiutions that dont exist in asia.

Whites inventing math can be explained by noise lol and modern white zoomers are lazy and subhuman so w/e
By noise? What do u mean?
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
Terrance tao's mother was a math teacher bro, also he doesnt sound that smart when he talks. Multi level intelligence theory is true and real, general intelligence doesnt exist
What exactly is multi level intelligence theory? I didn't know Tao's mom was a math teacher, but now that I think about it a lot of famous mathematicians had famous math mentors.
Asians are a lot better at math, western universities would be 100% asians if they were allowed to. Whites have legacy spots in well funded instiutions that dont exist in asia.

Whites inventing math can be explained by noise lol and modern white zoomers are lazy and subhuman so w/e
I do agree that asians are better at the math you are expected to do in high school and undergraduate level, so I agree universities would be 100% asian, but I don't agree that they are better at the more creative side of math. Not sure what you mean by noise to be honest.
These mega geniuses were still 1 in a billion intelligence I'm sure but we dont know how much of their fame is luck/just happening to be born at the right place and time you know? And how many ramujan figures there are out there, who were geniuses born in shit circumstances.

I remember looking this up before, with 2 sides being "are these luminaries superhuman" vs "these luminaries were smart sure but a lot of it was luck too" and seeing good arguments for both
I can see how luck can be a huge factor, like I explained before about mathematical problems having multiple approaches, lucky people can just stumble upon the right approach by chance. I know one case of that, there was this female mathematicians who gained fame after solving a famous problem that hadn't been solved in decades. I don't understand the details but from the comments it seems she didn't really come up with anything crazy, she just happened to stumble upon an approach to solving a the problem that no one else had tried and it worked. Basically she used a recently proved theorem that nobody had try using the solve the problem and it worked. I don't think she's like a mega genius, but she's now kind of famous and earned a position at a famous university.
 
Moondust

Moondust

NEET
Nov 8, 2023
5,949
What exactly is multi level intelligence theory? I didn't know Tao's mom was a math teacher, but now that I think about it a lot of famous mathematicians had famous math mentors.

I do agree that asians are better at the math you are expected to do in high school and undergraduate level, so I agree universities would be 100% asian, but I don't agree that they are better at the more creative side of math. Not sure what you mean by noise to be honest.

I can see how luck can be a huge factor, like I explained before about mathematical problems having multiple approaches, lucky people can just stumble upon the right approach by chance. I know one case of that, there was this female mathematicians who gained fame after solving a famous problem that hadn't been solved in decades. I don't understand the details but from the comments it seems she didn't really come up with anything crazy, she just happened to stumble upon an approach to solving a the problem that no one else had tried and it worked. Basically she used a recently proved theorem that nobody had try using the solve the problem and it worked. I don't think she's like a mega genius, but she's now kind of famous and earned a position at a famous university.
Are east asians better at math cuz of their culture pushing them to do well in school or cuz theyre naturally better at it tho? Ive also heard east asian writing naturally tunes their brain to be better at math too cuz of how it works🤔
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
Are east asians better at math cuz of their culture pushing them to do well in school or cuz theyre naturally better at it tho? Ive also heard east asian writing naturally tunes their brain to be better at math too cuz of how it works🤔
Honestly I am not sure, it's hard to tell. I think culture it's a big part of it, but not sure if it's all of it. I heard about that too, but the general consensus was that it's a myth and it's bullshit. Asian writing systems don't make you better at math. There was a famous, I think japanese, mathematician who would talk about that and he would basically get clowned on every time. Can't remember his name tho.
 
λ-calculus

λ-calculus

Documenting my journey to the sewer
Oct 24, 2023
657
Asians are a lot better at math, western universities would be 100% asians if they were allowed to. Whites have legacy spots in well funded instiutions that dont exist in asia.

Whites inventing math can be explained by noise lol and modern white zoomers are lazy and subhuman so w/e
Also how did he get banned mere minutes after making that comment? Does anyone know?
 
Unemployed

Unemployed

McMahonist
Nov 28, 2020
5,238
Also how did he get banned mere minutes after making that comment? Does anyone know?
He said he's homosexual. That's why.

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